Compared to the International blogosphere, the Indian blogosphere has a lot of communal hatred and pseudo-patriotism. Not only in the blogosphere, but on the Indian part of the Internet. When you write, talk, film about the evils you see in the society in your own contry, you will easily be labelled as anti-Indian or commie. But don't worry, a few people who belongs to a class who have access to computer and Internet world aren't the majority of the country. But the dangerous thing is they can influence the illiterate lower class with their bullshitting. That is why there should be a number of blogs to resist these blahbbers.
Akshay is an excellent photographer from Mumbai. He recently made a trip to Kashmir and posted his pics in Flickr. See the first comment he got for his pic titled "Butcher of Shrinagar". He wrote "The real butchers are the Indian Security forces and the militants. Sadly innocent people are caught in the cross fire." This has provoked a pseudo-patriot to threaten he would report it to Flickr as offensive. But everybody knows that its just a blow in the air.
A blogger, Sandeep got angry when he saw a review on Deepa Mehta's movie WATER. It is a fact that movie reviewers in the USA took the chance to depict the whole movie is about the current India and India is still a land of un-civilized people. It would be quite acceptable if he had written about the reviewer's intentions, instead he attacks Deepa Mehta.
"Deepa Mehta is no social reformer or maker of meaningful cinema but a crass opportunist who is out to earn fast money by misrepresenting a culture she is ashamed to belong to."
Whoa! Does this guy know what "meaningful cinema" is? And does he mean a culture or a tradition is not to be questioned? We can only progress by admitting our own mistakes and take action accordingly. The movie is a very good reminder of how we shouldn't be. Its not only about the religion, but it has some gender aspects to it.
"If Mehta is this fortright in taking up social causes, why doesn’t she focus on the plight of women under Islam? She’d be bombed out of her senses before she knows it’s happened to her."
Wasn't he aware of what the RSS folks done in Banaras in 2000? And why the film isn't released in India yet? Remember all those theatre burnings in 1996 when Deepa's movie Fire was released?
You cannot ask film makers to shoot what YOU want. "Khamosh Pani" (a movie about the religious fanaticism in Pakistan) was made by a Pakistani woman and an Indian lady (Kiran Kher) was in the lead role, but the director isn't bombed yet. And I think she did not have to face any such problem while shooting the movie compared to the banaras drama in 2000.
Aryadan Shoukath, writer and producer of two films [Paadam onnu:Oru vilaapam (Lesson one: A wail) and Daiva Naamatthil (In the name of God)] which was against the evils in the Muslim community in North Kerala, had to face some protests, but the movie was released in the theatres without any problems.
I remember an incident that happened during the Vibgyor Film Festival in Thrissur. They were showing a docu "SHIT-Vande Maatharam version" which captures manual scavenging through the experience of Madurai Municipal Corporation worker Mariammal, a dalit woman. Vande Maatharam (ARR version) was playing in the background. This was to show how a specific class is treated in the society of modern India. Then a group of local RSS folks rushed in with shouting this is an anti-Indian documentary. Thankfully the crowd, the film makers etc who were present at the screening place stood as one and these guys had to go back.
I wonder what these guys - online or offline - think about themselves, but India do not belong to only them.
Update: You might want to check out these websites, if you haven't found these yet.
Indian Muslims : Check out his posts like this and this if you thought this blog is about supporting religious fanatics in the Muslim community.
Hindu friend of Muslims
Moderate India Speaks : In the summary of this blog, Rohit says -- Moderates generally keep quiet. As a result, most discussions and debates - particularly on the Internet - are dominated by extremists. This can give the impression that most people of "the other" religion, whichever it may be, are fundamentalists. "Moderate India Speaks" aims to correct this situation.
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Jo, thanks a lot for your email to me. I could not reply to it due to some strange errors.
Anyway, I wanted to inform you that as of today, I have moved my two blogs over to the Wordpress platform, with their own domain names. The new addresses are:
http://a-hindu-friend-of-indian-muslims.com
AND
http://moderate-india-speaks.org
I am right now working on another website (not a blog), which I hope to launch later tonight. :)
Thanks again for your kind words; they make it all worthwhile.
Jo, I completely support your views.
Nice one Jo. Well researched and very well written.
Jo, the new website I spoke of earlier is now ready: http://first-hand-indians.com
FHI is a discussion board, where Indians of all religions can get to know each other. This way their perception of each other will come not from popular stereotypes, but from first-hand interactions. Hopefully, this will help further in promoting better relationships among all religions in India.
Great piece of writing Jo! Agree that moderates usually go unheard.
Sorry, there was a spelling error in my previous post. The correct link is:
http://first-hand-indian.com
I remember reading somewhere that the first rule of blogging is: never to write in anger.
That rule actually doesn't just hold true for blogging but for almost all aspects of out lives.
However for a few, anger is the only emotion. Hatred is their biggest high. Like the character HULK.
The only way to fight them is to do what Gandhi (who is probably the most hated man among Indian hulks) borrowed from Christ (another object of hate) and Buddha (conveniently forgotten thinker) and turn the other cheek.
That should get them hulking even more.
However it is not just the hindu right wing in India who are like that. But they use patriotism as a weapon, by trying to hijack it. By owning patriotism, they want people to think that u r either with them or you are a traitor.
They forget that India is a state of mind. Indianness is an emotion beyond a flag, a passport, a nationality. Indianness shapes our dreams, it's the anchor that makes us all special in this world. Indianess is the root from which we all branch out and flower.
Why waste such a beautiful idea called India to spread hatred?
What I find interesting is the mentality of a section of India's population that proudly insults our soldiers as 'butchers' and feels warm and fuzzy and sophisticated about itself for doing so.
Raj, 6000 people are missing in Kashmir - supposedly after being by picked up by security forces(for questioning) in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir. This fact does not make me warm and fuzzy and sophisticated inside. It saddens me deeply.
By the way that number didn't fall out of the air - its number from the State Human Rights commision.Therefore, knowing our governments the number is probably higher.
Factoid : In 2000 there were 4lakh military personeel in Srinagar, policing a population of 2.2 Lakh.
Jo - I'm glad you took this issue, I'm sick of people using Patriotism and Religion to spread hatred
Hi jo, interesting post, loads of information, links and well researched. I agree to many facts in this post but vehemently oppose the following one:
I DO believe Deepe Mehta is a CRASS opportunist as Sandeep says. Its an easy argument that "I make movies on issues that existed in india..." I am forced to recall a scene from Deepa's movie 1947 Earth, where she shows a marvellous example of how opportunistic she is and how she wants to show india in bad light. This is a completely unsituational, unwarranted, vested-interested child marriage scene pushed with the song "banno rani..." playing in the background..
I beg to ask, what the F*** has child marriage in hindu tradition got to do with a movie which is SUPPOSED to depict a parsi lady's view point on partition.
In my opinion, Deepa Mehta cares no shit for India! All she cares is that the white skins say "some-expat-indians-make-sensible-movies"
Raj -
All soldiers are butchers. Indian or foreign. Same for militants.
Allt these statements are true in the sense that all people are good or bad - there is enough evil around to say something is bad, and enough good around to say something is good. Is this news?
All politicians are corrupt. All road contracters are cheaters. All studetns are shirkers. All teens are a pain.
Perhaps we should all go around saying all Indian soldiers are angels? Or that all Indian policemen are saints?
>> Rohit: I appreciate what you are doing.
>> DreamsLittle: Thanks for your support.
>> Alexis Leon: Thank you Alexis.
>> Arvindh: Very true Arvindh. Time to find out more think-alikes. :-)
>> SloganMurugan: Sometimes, in this age, showing the other cheek won't work. Keeping silence on this subject can lead to these guys keep spreading the hatred all over.
>> Raj: I have only one question to ask you - Are you from Kashmir? Would we keep saying the same if any woman in your or my family was raped by the militants or the army?
>> Akshay: Me too pal. Thanks for your support.
>> Harish: I haven't seen 1947 Earth, but I do not see any problem in going to the details especially when the movie is about history. But then again, what I think is good for India these days are the movies like SWADES. I wonder why it wasn't noticed as much as RDB.
And hey, what about the semi-final results of Super Singer? I came to know very lately about the show, so I missed the episode. :(
>> Dancewithshadows: I think not all the soldiers are butchers. In Kashmir's case, things are bad. I don't know if that happens with the government's consent. I think soldiers are victims of a system.
Hey Jo, am thru to the top 30 of South india in supersinger.
about deepa mehta, its okay showing parts of history.. but I question her motive... there is a malayalam word called "doshaika drikku" - some one who sees only the follies! thats what I call deepa mehta!
Well nothing top my list...Like it or not folks...sorry for this stinkin response...does'nt matter if ya still holler...ewwwww.ewwwww....Think about it a neo- Super power that thinks shittin on the roads is super trendy and then some other Destiny-forsaken sub-standard race can clean up the mess so these trendy modern artists can repeat the process all over again the following morning. I still vividly remember one passerby on ever busy old school road rant and curse..."Evidennano evitingalokke potti veenadhu ....Oh chandhikku vedi vaikkanam" !!! Its still ringing in my ears after 20-some years ...no kidding !!! These boorish dorks are such a disgrace to our society ! Hell even animals cover their droppings in a secluded place....Man is worse than beasts !!! Wish i could beat the living hell outta these low lives that use the roads as their restrooms !!!! Dang my blood's boiling way too much !!!
I think Harish has hit the nail on its head. There is enormous difference between constructive criticisms like "pATham..." and crass provocative mud-slinging ( I haven't seen Deepa Mehta's movies but I have read enough explicit description of scenes ). I haven't been able to find any statement from Deepa Mehta or others that point to the fact that there were sufficiently many instances of, for instance, widows forced into prostitution, to justify the impression the movie would create in viewers. Does pATham onn~ show people questioning islamic faith? Does it make crass jokes on muslim holy men?
Certainly Sandeep doesn't say that culture or tradition shouldn't be questioned at all - you are only slinging mud by writing of random possibilities you feel.
Also, you are being selective in giving an example of criticism of muslim society alone not being stopped. I am sure you aren't unaware of sensible criticisms of hindu society like pariNayam ( of the pArvaNEndu-mukhi... fame ) - people never had trouble accepting that because that wasn't toilet-film-making : that was genuine criticism. Similarly svAmi vivEkAnanda, whom "hindu fundamentalists" like me adore, respect and read, repeatedly criticises evils in hindu society. I hope you get and appreciate the difference.
Anyway making a sweeping generalisation about soldiers is certainly unfair. How do you know they aren't isolated instances of some soldiers giving vent to their frustration/repressed sexual feelings? And it is certainly okay to protest the showing of vandE-mAtaram. There are better means to convey an idea than to trample on symbols that others love, respect and cherish.
On an unrelated note, here is someone describing the murderous exploits of your icon ( well, I don't know how well-researched it is but it is good to be aware of such things; you shouldn't inspire yourself with a cruel beast ).
In retrospect, I think cinema is a very, very poor medium to convey social injustices. What we need is clear thinking, reason and analysis. Cinema endeavours to convince the viewers of the director's point of view through celluloid magic and hoodwinking than by any logic.
>> Harish: Great to hear about topping up in the contest. Wish you all the best buddy!
>> BlueByrd: Rightly said pal. :-)
>> Froginthewell:
There is enormous difference between constructive criticisms like "pATham..." and crass provocative mud-slinging ( I haven't seen Deepa Mehta's movies but I have read enough explicit description of scenes ).
I don't find any difference here. Deepa hasn't shown a Christian or Muslim, but an educated Hindu youngman coming to rescue the widow from the un-educated, purely religion-oriented community of that time. Why aren't you seeing that point?? Don't rely too much on the reviews, go see the movie yourself without any prejudice.
Does pATham onn~ show people questioning islamic faith? Does it make crass jokes on muslim holy men?
You just said above that "pATHam onnu" has constructive criticism and what made you ask this question now? Anyways, "pATHam onnu" does question the "practise" of Islamic faith. Writer and Director clearly questions about keeping several wifes with the consent of the religious leaders and the rich. It also questions about Talaaq. Your second question doesn't make any sense to me. Its like asking "why the Gujarat riot wasn't shown in RDB" or something. Or did you just lose your sense because of your anger?
Certainly Sandeep doesn't say that culture or tradition shouldn't be questioned at all - you are only slinging mud by writing of random possibilities you feel.
Sandeep's post was mud-slinging on Deepa and I exposed it. His statements obviously would make anyone (without a prejudiced mind) ask if questioning the culture or tradition (which Deepa did in the movie) is a bad thing.
Also, you are being selective in giving an example of criticism of muslim society alone not being stopped.
I request you to go through my post without any prejudice. I have given the example of those movies when I quoted Sandeep saying Deepa would have burnt if she talked against Muslims. I also told "a few people who belongs to a class who have access to computer and Internet world aren't the majority of the country". That means, not all the Hindus (or Muslims or Christians) are religious fanatics.
Similarly svAmi vivEkAnanda, whom "hindu fundamentalists" like me adore, respect and read, repeatedly criticises evils in hindu society. I hope you get and appreciate the difference.
Great to know that "hindu fundamentalists like you" (as you said) adore Swami Vivekananda. I really don't have to mention this here, but I do admire Swami Vivekananda and Nithya Chaithayna Yathi (I havent read their complete works, but so far am very impressed). But its very sad that you are aware of Swami's teachings, but still a "fundamentalist".
And i'd like to add this also - I was amongst the first few people who were the attendees of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's first visit to Thrissur. He wasn't this much glamourised or had such a large number of followers at that time and I thought "oh, he is different from other fake swamijis" when I saw he was teaching meditation. There was only a few people, enough to fill a small auditorium. After the ceremony, I called a close friend of mine, told him about Art of Living and Sudarshana Kriya and he joined the course. Later he told me the centre is running by local VHP folks (oh, I forgot to tell you, my friend is a Hindu if you thought otherwise) and next year I saw Ravishankar saying in Kumbha Mela that the temple should be built in the place of Masjid. Then I got the picture right!
How do you know they aren't isolated instances of some soldiers giving vent to their frustration/repressed sexual feelings?
I ask the question that I asked Raj. Would you say the same if someone from your family had such experience from the army? Would you forgive them that it is because they had repressed sexual feelings?
And it is certainly okay to protest the showing of vandE-mAtaram.
Whew....! Now it confirms where you stand!! So all the time I took to write the above things is a waste, I guess.
First, an erratum : I meant "certainly it is okay to protest the showing of vandE-mAtaram in the manner you described". Such protests should be democratic, that is all.
Coming to the main points :
Soldiers : Did I say that it is okay for the soldiers to rape? I am only questioning what seems to be unfair generalisation - that "Indian Security forces rape".
Questioning the way a certain faith is practised is drastically different from questioning the faith. The point is that "pATham..." doesn't criticise islam per se. This young widow is shown to question hindu faith.
That Deepa Mehta shows a person with hindu background rescuing a woman doesn't absolve her of the insults. Please look at what Greatbong has written about Fire in this article.
The person running some center of Art of Living may be VHP people, doesn't mean the organization has anything to do with VHP. I know several art of living organizers, and nothing communal is discussed in circles familiar to them. You might feel that Babari masjid should be rebuilt. That doesn't mean that everyone who calls for building temple there now is a fundamentalist.
Whew....! Now it confirms where you stand!!
Are you saying people shouldn't be allowed to protest?
Your second question doesn't make any question to me. Its like asking "why the Gujarat riot wasn't shown in RDB" or something. Or did you just lose your sense because of your anger?
No, I am not angry. Anyway your comparison is utterly wrong. My second question, namely "Does it make crass jokes on mulsim holy men" was to point out that unlike Deepa Mehta's fire, "pATham..." observed some decorum in presentation.
Okay, it wasn't obvious to me that when you were saying about "pATham..." you were responding to the claim that Deepa Mehta "would be bombed out of her senses" is she focused on women in muslim society. That was misinterpretation on my part. But I still subscribe to what I think Sandeep intended to convey - that she would have been "bombed out of her senses" if she made a portrayal of muslim society as crass as her films. Remember the ransom on Danish cartoons declared in UP?
One of the main reasons I don't like film makers like Sathyajit Ray/Mrinal Sen and the other who fit in that category..is..they showed all the bad things about India to make money.
Will Mr.RAy / Sen take the cameras into their families and friends and show it to the world..I mean the bad things? Won't they portray only the best when it comes to persoal life.
Akshay
Raj, 6000 people are missing in Kashmir - supposedly after being by picked up by security forces(for questioning) in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir. This fact does not make me warm and fuzzy and sophisticated inside. It saddens me deeply.
--Were u saddened when more than a lakh Kashmiri pandits had to leave J&K. Did you take your camera to the refugee camps and note their plight.
This is a question even for Jo.
Regards the missing people, how many of these were kidnapped/joined the terrorists and how many were killed by security forces?
There may be abuses but think of the situation if the terrorists gain the upper hand - the end of civilization. Think of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan and you get the picture
Raj - These people who can comfortably abuse the security forces forget that their lifestyle and security exists because of the same security forces
These people are nowhere when a temple with pilgrims is bombed.
J&K is not a piece of land. It is a vanguard of ideology. As a prominent editor has said 'India simply cannot be defeated in her Kashmir'. If you wish to continue the discussion I will give his name.
Yes - Deepa MEhta's movies are deeply offensive to India. Regards why - plenty of reasons - misinterpreting partition. Showing that it is Hindus to blame. giving the names of Hindu godesses to 2 lesbians, wronf portrayal of Hindu customs.
Regards Fire- a small revelation - Do you know the original story is about 2 lesbian muslim women. If Deepa was so bold why did she not use the original story and setting?
I completely agree with ya Jo! I havent been to the blogs u mentioned but I will soon...
However my approach to blogging is being pretty honest...whether one may like it or not, I write what I really feel...
Keshi.
As I said , I find this sort of mentality , which finds no difference between Indian soldiers and the terrorists of Kashmir very interesting. I am not making any judgement or a comment , I am just saying I find people like Akshay who insults Indian soldiers butchers , and this guy called Jo who believes earnestly that all soldiers are butchers and the rest of the gang , very interesting.. Keep it up.
Budding commies , huh ....keep it up !!
Wow - Jo has a profound question for me ...
"Raj: I have only one question to ask you - Are you from Kashmir? Would we keep saying the same if any woman in your or my family was raped by the militants or the army."
Militants or the army ? Damn - such equivalence. Chor ya police. Both same , huh ? I face no threat from Indian Army because the state which I hail from , has so far not expressed any inclination to separate itself from India , and it is unlikely to do so in future either. So there is no need for the army to be stationed in my state.
As for Kashmiri muslims , they deserve everything they get. My only regret is that they have not been punished enough. After carrying out mass threats of rape and murder against the hindus of Kashmir in 1989-90 , and practically driving them out of the valley , it would be hypocritical of them to complain or cry when they are subjected to similar treatment by our soldiers.
Of course , people like Akshay and yourself , if you seriously want to help , are welcome to go to Kashmir and join some terrorist organisation like LeT or JeM , and fight the Indian Army .Just crying on weblogs or abusing Indian Army in the safety of the internet is not enough. Man - that is so impotent. Show them that you care. And that you are not affected by the evil concepts of patriotism or nationalism.
PS : Too bad this blog is moderated. Else I would really tell you and your commie friends what I think of you.
Whew....! Now it confirms where you stand!! So all the time I took to write the above things is a waste, I guess .
Whew....! Now it confirms where you stand!! the above things is a waste, I guess!!!!!!!
Nobody compares their own soldiers with enemy. and calling them butchers means calling INDIANS butcher.
And why are you against some people protesting against vande mataram being played in a controvertial manner? if they feel offended, they have every right to protest.
also, vande mataram is our national song. showing it with such a background is illeagal
Now a days in India, there is protest every where. even congressmen ransacked stage where a marati play was being played (why i killed gandhi). subsequently it was banned too.
its quite easy to point out problems that are outside us Jo, its even easier to find a solution for them.....so i conclude that we're all fundamentalists...
I did go to Kashmir and I did talk to common kashmiris there - and yes I did even visit a Pandit refugee camp and talk to some Pandits who didn't go leave or have returned. I also took pictures - and I put it up on a public forum.
If that's not doing something than what is ?
I'm going back to my policy of not feeding trolls
Jo
Akshay does not seem to reply to my post. Maybe you can. I have sent Akshay a reply. Please post it.
I have one question regarding your comment:
'You cannot ask film makers to shoot what YOU want. "Khamosh Pani" (a movie about the religious fanaticism in Pakistan) was made by a Pakistani woman and an Indian lady (Kiran Kher) was in the lead role, but the director isn't bombed yet. And I think she did not have to face any such problem while shooting the movie compared to the banaras drama in 2000.'
Point taken. Howver please explain why dis Shabana Azmi who kept crying about freedom of expression etc etc etc condemned another film Gadar - Ek Prem Katha when muslim fundamentalists went on a rampage against it?
Why did her fellow passenger Shyam Benegal criticize the same movie and another one Border claiming thiat such movies were a result of NDA saffronizing Bollywood.
Honestly I too am not in favor of what happened in Varanasi. But after seeing such behavior from people like Benegal and Azmi even somebody like me is forced to agree with people like Sandeep about Fire, Water etc being Anti Hindu.
Nikhil,
There are people with double standards everywhere. Academies, Historic research institutes etc etc. When the Congress is in power, these places would be filled with their guys. When BJP gets into power the same happens again. Unfortunately we are not lucky enough to fed with 'complete' truth. So what I do is observe and write/say what you feel is right. That's what am doing here.
If you are asking for my opinion in this case, I haven't seen both the movies. Sometimes I felt they are over patriotic, abusing the citizens' patriotic feelings for money. What the present India need are the movies like SWADES. But that doesn't inspire people, but RDB does. Because SWADES talks about reforming the villages, and RDB has an urban flavour to it. I would give 10/10 to Swades and 6/10 to RDB.
I heard from friends that Gadar is a good movie. People from the cultural scene might have their own biases. But that shouldn't make you/me agree with the hardcore guys on the other side. Then what difference would that make between them and you/me?
BTW, I will publish any of your comments as long as it doesn't contain any personal attacks, prejudiced thoughts and communal hatred. As long as you think am not an anti-Hindu, and I think you are open to discussion without any prejudice, you are welcome here. :-)
Jo
Thanks for your comment. I dont think I mentioned anywhere you were anti-hindu. Regards Shabana, Deepa Mehta and her like, I do not know - they may not be consciously anti-hindu. It is only when one sees partisan behavior from their side (type that I described earlier) then one is unable to negate when some die hard fundamentalists call them anti-hindu.